Comments on: THE GREAT, ELUSIVE DRUM SOUND http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/ Mix magazine's George Petersen's rants, musings and general commentary about recording, live sound and professional audio in general Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:51:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: Chuck Taylor http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-81 Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:29:10 +0000 http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-81 I apologize for barging in here with the above question. I don't mean any disrespect for the work that you do. I know you that you have to be highlly skilled and that mixing audio is an art form that most could not do. Your work is under appreciated and not even known by the masses that enjoy the fruits of your labor.<br> <br> Sincerely,<br> Chuck Taylor I apologize for barging in here with the above question. I don’t mean any disrespect for the work that you do. I know you that you have to be highlly skilled and that mixing audio is an art form that most could not do. Your work is under appreciated and not even known by the masses that enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Sincerely,
Chuck Taylor

]]> by: Chuck Taylor http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-80 Tue, 07 Nov 2006 05:07:53 +0000 http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-80 I've been wondering if the problem with commercial music (rock and country) is from the recording mix or is it that the recording musician's drummers need to be throttled back so that the virtues of the music that is recorded can be heard. At first I've thought it was in the mix. Perhaps the level of the drums and particularly the cymbals too loud, perhaps some echo making them sound abrasive, too much treble maybe. But the more I think about it, I believe it’s the way the drums are played, probably too much cymbals with their over all sustain that clutters the sound spectrum making the vocals and melody more difficult to discern. Is this a result of the Phil Specter’s “Wall of Sound”? <br> <br> Does anyone think we’ll ever see a return to simpler more uncluttered drums in music?<br> I’m a real music fan but it has been real frustrating to miss what is probably some great music. <br> I appreciate any comments, Thank you<br> <br> Chuck Taylor I’ve been wondering if the problem with commercial music (rock and country) is from the recording mix or is it that the recording musician’s drummers need to be throttled back so that the virtues of the music that is recorded can be heard. At first I’ve thought it was in the mix. Perhaps the level of the drums and particularly the cymbals too loud, perhaps some echo making them sound abrasive, too much treble maybe. But the more I think about it, I believe it’s the way the drums are played, probably too much cymbals with their over all sustain that clutters the sound spectrum making the vocals and melody more difficult to discern. Is this a result of the Phil Specter’s “Wall of Sound”?

Does anyone think we’ll ever see a return to simpler more uncluttered drums in music?
I’m a real music fan but it has been real frustrating to miss what is probably some great music.
I appreciate any comments, Thank you

Chuck Taylor

]]> by: Kevin Mellors http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-22 Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:41:14 +0000 http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-22 Question? Is the SM58 not the SM57 with the steel mesh grill taken off? I've heard they are the same mic inside. Question? Is the SM58 not the SM57 with the steel mesh grill taken off? I’ve heard they are the same mic inside.

]]> by: Christian C. http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-20 Wed, 27 Sep 2006 05:54:02 +0000 http://blog.mixonline.com/audiobites/2006/09/26/the-great-elusive-drum-sound/#comment-20 “The right tool for the right kind of job” phrase is not always the rule when it comes to recording, especially for drums, some styles in music demand for rich pumping drums with dry snare and round kicks; other styles have a rich snare and a modest kick, therefore we can see that it definitely depends on which kind of sound we want to hear in the end. Such premise will lead us to think about what mic technique or positioning to use.<br> <br> Usually, and I still don’t understand why, some people tend to over-mic drum sets, when really, like George says, sometimes all you need is two overheads that create the stereo image, and a kick… But I have seen people almost placing one mic per instrument on the drum set, i.e. once I saw a recording engineer doing this when recording a reggae drum session, micking everything individually, and to do so I saw him use a bunch of Neumanns and Sennheisers. The worst part of it was when I heard the drummer: The man was wild--pity the mics! He should have been a punk rock drummer as opposed to a reggae kind of man, no dynamics/no control, seven tracks full of peaking and imbalance. It was a mess: Marley would have sobbed. <br> <br> With so much technology, I have observed that currently a lot of music production is done using a lot of the nice sample media collections, drum loops, which by the way get boring after some time; With not much of an investment, you can get greatly recorded drum sets and run them on the sampler of choice, you can use Native Instruments Battery, IK Multimedia SampleTank, Steinberg Halion, Propellerheads Reason, and a huge list of others; but there is an ingredient that most producers forget about when using the sample media and this my friends, is: dynamics. All I hear is invariable static uncreative drum lines with no character. I believe it's okay to use some sample media on replacing a kick, or enhancing a snare or even cymbals, but relying completely on sampler, I’m not quite sure that's completely acceptable, for most music unless it's something like techno which by the way has never required musicians at all.<br> <br> I personally enjoy miking a drum allowing the room to give its resonance, I usually place the two overheads 7’ or 8’ above the set, I place one mic on the snare altitude between the hats and the toms to add a little richness to the snare, toms and hat. One mic--maybe 1.5’ or 2’ away from the kick. This usually gives a nice result, but beware of the drummer, that is what counts the most! “The right tool for the right kind of job” phrase is not always the rule when it comes to recording, especially for drums, some styles in music demand for rich pumping drums with dry snare and round kicks; other styles have a rich snare and a modest kick, therefore we can see that it definitely depends on which kind of sound we want to hear in the end. Such premise will lead us to think about what mic technique or positioning to use.

Usually, and I still don’t understand why, some people tend to over-mic drum sets, when really, like George says, sometimes all you need is two overheads that create the stereo image, and a kick… But I have seen people almost placing one mic per instrument on the drum set, i.e. once I saw a recording engineer doing this when recording a reggae drum session, micking everything individually, and to do so I saw him use a bunch of Neumanns and Sennheisers. The worst part of it was when I heard the drummer: The man was wild–pity the mics! He should have been a punk rock drummer as opposed to a reggae kind of man, no dynamics/no control, seven tracks full of peaking and imbalance. It was a mess: Marley would have sobbed.

With so much technology, I have observed that currently a lot of music production is done using a lot of the nice sample media collections, drum loops, which by the way get boring after some time; With not much of an investment, you can get greatly recorded drum sets and run them on the sampler of choice, you can use Native Instruments Battery, IK Multimedia SampleTank, Steinberg Halion, Propellerheads Reason, and a huge list of others; but there is an ingredient that most producers forget about when using the sample media and this my friends, is: dynamics. All I hear is invariable static uncreative drum lines with no character. I believe it’s okay to use some sample media on replacing a kick, or enhancing a snare or even cymbals, but relying completely on sampler, I’m not quite sure that’s completely acceptable, for most music unless it’s something like techno which by the way has never required musicians at all.

I personally enjoy miking a drum allowing the room to give its resonance, I usually place the two overheads 7’ or 8’ above the set, I place one mic on the snare altitude between the hats and the toms to add a little richness to the snare, toms and hat. One mic–maybe 1.5’ or 2’ away from the kick. This usually gives a nice result, but beware of the drummer, that is what counts the most!

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